Talk:Guidelines

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:::Someone else can make the BasementCat macro, though ^_-
:::Someone else can make the BasementCat macro, though ^_-
:::[[User:Anne Onimus|Anne Onimus]] 17:02, 21 November 2007 (EST)
:::[[User:Anne Onimus|Anne Onimus]] 17:02, 21 November 2007 (EST)
 +
::::I'm not sure myself. I used "Littrbocks" for Hell in Acts... as it was a stinky "bad place"... but if a convention comes up, I'd use it. Hell is one of those strange places. I'm trying not to force memes in the lolcat bible... wondering if something will just crop up naturally... like Ceiling Cat for God did. --[[User:WikiAdmin|Zotnix]] 17:26, 21 November 2007 (EST)
==Please leave out propaganda==
==Please leave out propaganda==

Revision as of 22:26, 21 November 2007

Contents

Common Word Translations?

Is "cookie" really being used for "kingdom"? This seems to me to be something that wouldn't easily be understood by newcomers. Cattus petasatus 17:40, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

I'm a retard. I noted someone did that in Acts, and put it in Guidelines without thinking. We should have something for Kingdom, however. Comes up a lot in teh bibul. I was thinking howze. Making Kingdom of Heaven = Howze in Ceiling. Glintir 13:00, 18 October 2007 (CDT)
It's tricky ... ideally, whatever gets picked should work in phrases like "Thy kingdom come" or "The kingdom of Heaven is within you." Cattus petasatus 14:10, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
Forgot "They Kingdom come". Litterbox? Windowsill? Sunny Spot? Thy sunny spot come. The sunny spot in ceiling iz in u hed. Works, but is a touch weak. Glintir 13:15, 18 October 2007 (CDT)
I do like Sunny Spot, and it needs to be in here somewhere. Maybe in some of the descriptions of Paradise? Cattus petasatus 14:35, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
I decided Sunny Spot was the perfect translation for "green pastures" in Psalm 23. Cattus petasatus 15:20, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

Im in ur internetz, creatin ur forumz

I've set up a completely unofficial forum - feel free to drop by if you want. I'd like people to use their LOLcat Bible Project usernames as forum usernames, please.

For now the forum setup is super-simple - there's an On Topic and an Off Topic forum. If things get busy, I'll re-org as needed. Cattus petasatus 15:23, 13 October 2007 (EDT)

Spelling

I like the different styles, but shouldn't we at least use the same spellings for some common words like cheezburgr, cookiez, kinkz, teh, sed, doodz, usual abbreviationz (upper or lowercase) n stuff, just as a common base? So I'd suggest short a word list. What do you think? -- Landei

Yeah, I was thinking this. I'll make a new page for spelling guidelines. We'll discuss things there. --Zotnix 23:26, 1 September 2007 (EDT)
Isn't it generally accepted that it is spelled "kittahs" and not "kittehs"? I've seen a few instances of kittehs here, but I've always seen it as "kittahs" --Busydoingnothing 20:37, 9 October 2007 (EDT)
Nah, the inconsistency is part of the fun! I think it's an integral part of lolspeak (1337sp33k too). I'm doing it on purpose. Personally I prefer "kittehs" to "kittahs." Cute Overload (which is where I came from) always spells it "kittehs." -- Wotthe7734 00:42, 13 October 2007 (EDT)
I agree most closely with wotthe's opinion. While standardized grammar might make it easier to read, half the point of lolspeak is there is no standard. Darkeye11547 10:51, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
In actuality kitty pidgin (lolcat speak) is amazingly consistent and standardized. In lieu of this, I think it'd be better to try and capitalize on some of this consistency to make a coherent piece of work. However, yeah, there are variations, and these will be evidence throughout the LOLCat Bible --Zotnix 10:54, 24 October 2007 (EDT)
Indeed, kitty pidgin is quite consistent. It's easy to tell when something is not fluent kitty pidgin. There are different styles, but there is still a strong consistency between those styles. anshkakashi 15:14, 24 October 2007 (EDT)

Photos

Since anything found on ICHC and the like are creative Commons it's OK to add these photos? I have been adding a few photos to some chapters I hope it's OK -- Djkatscan 09:25, 13 October 2007 (EDT)

If they are CC-Attribution, make sure you put the original author's name in the description of the file. ^^; anshkakashi 19:45, 13 October 2007 (EDT)

HALP!! I am new, to all things wiki-editory, and have no clue how to properly insert the picture I just whipped up to put on Genesis 3. I tried doing the embedded image thingie but it turned out huge. How do I make it so it's small and/or like one of those link things where the picture is small on the page but is linked to the larger image elsewhere? Thanks!!Bornofstardust 12:38, 23 October 2007 (EDT)

Oh yes, and what sort of attribution do I have to do where? I made the image myself out of the Ceilingcat picture and a public domain Bible illustration by Gustave Dore. Bornofstardust 12:40, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
Attribution goes in the description of the file. Just go to the file and click edit and type in your attribution information. And to make the picture smaller, you could look at examples on other pages, but the basic syntax is: [[Image:imagename|thumb|300px|left]] where the 300px of course is the size of the thumbnail. Hope that helps! anshkakashi 15:13, 24 October 2007 (EDT)

Other names

Can we has some specific name aliases? Moses could be Monorail Cat, David could be LOLrus. etc... But we'd need a proper agreed list?

Real names are better - less confusing, & the whole thing is funnier if you don't have to stop every 5 minutes & say "wtf? gon 2 raed dixionery, brb." kthxbai -- Wotthe7734 00:46, 13 October 2007 (EDT)
I think it was decided that we are gonna try to stick to the original names. Otherwise people will need a glossary to understand any of it, and that takes away the fun. -- anshkakashi 19:45, 13 October 2007 (EDT)

Any term for Satan yet, or are you leaving it the same? (wuz thinkin FloorCat, HellCat or sumthin) --Dial mcat 15:11, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

I suggest we can use Hitlercat when talking about Satan/the devil/whatever else he's called in the Bible. --witteafval 14:36, 21 October 2007 (MDT)

omg, LOVE IT!!! If we make God Ceiling Cat, why not make Satan Hitlercat? It's not so obscure that people wouldn't get it. Bornofstardust 12:44, 23 October 2007 (EDT)

I also like either "Jeebus" or "Jezuz" or "Jesuz." I think it's more fun to futz with his name just a smidge. Bornofstardust 12:47, 23 October 2007 (EDT)

What about changing "ham" to "hamhamdinner NOM NOM NOM?" that name is just begging to be messed with.--nupanick 15:33, 26 October 2007 (EDT)

LOLCat "in jokes"

Standard LOLCat-isms should also be defined and used consistently throughout. As explained elsewhere, "Ceiling Cat" is God. Because "can has cheezburgr" is so standard, that should have a definitive meaning (I propose that it pertain to salvation, eternal life and going to heaven.) But there should be a specific meaning for that, as well as for "Iz in ur." --Reimero 13:43, 9 October 2007 (EDT)

I don't agree with the "eternal life" thing. Yes, "cheezburgr" is standard, but I've only ever seen it used literally. Why mess with it? How about something like "can haz 9 gazillion lifes"? -- Wotthe7734 00:55, 13 October 2007 (EDT)
I kinda like using "can haz cheezburgr" for "bless," and some of the similar suggestions on the guidelines page, because you don't have to come up with a million ways of saying it and can go on to the parts that are more fun.
On the other hand, I'd be against standardizing "is in ur" - it occurs so many times now in a fairly literal sense ("Jonah wuz in ur whale makin ur sushis") that a lot of verses would get retroactively broken if we changed it to mean something else.
Plus, "can haz cheezburgr" is easily figured out by a newcomer: it clearly means getting something good. The more specific in-jokes we agree on, the fewer visitors will understand the project. (Let's face it, they're not going to go to the Guidelines page.) Cattus petasatus 08:33, 13 October 2007 (EDT)

o hai! Umm..i see in some verses they change all references to people to be kittys, and babys are kittens etc. Hands become paws etc. Are there any humans in this lolcat bible or do we assume everyone and everything is kittehs? Bboyneko 01:09, 16 October 2007 (EDT)

hai. problem wit dat is kittehs doesn't indicate gender. Which is important in the bible. I would use kittehs sparingly. Glintir 13:40, 18 October 2007 (CDT)
Or maybe just with attention to context; after all, you can often tell a person's gender from the rest of the verse. Cattus petasatus 14:56, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

A useful text source

I have a searchable online Bible with about three different translations which might be useful for looking up texts. More flexible search options than a lot of online Bibles. (And if this ever gets completed, including apocrypha, I totally want to add it.) It's also the first online Bible I know of to link back to lolcatbible.

I have a favorite online bible I like to use: [1] has MANY translations. Also I like using this online lolcat talk translator: [[2]] The only bad thing about this translator is it generates ALL CAPS. So what i do is I cut and paste the text into WORD, then go to FORMAT > CHANGE CASE and select SENTENCE CASE which converts the all caps into normal sentences.
I suggest we post links to these two online bibles in the guidelines page or home page, and then also link to the lolcat translator so people can help us out faster. -- Bboyneko 13:16, 12 October 2007 (EDT)
I'm cutting & pasting from an online KJV at [3] (sry i iz wiki n00b & dont knos how 2 fixs taht linkx liek u d00ds did. wil lookz it up l8r & do it rite nxt tiem k?) No all-caps. I'm editing it in Bean (open-source word processing app, b-ll g-t-s is teh EVIL!!!!!!!!!) & it seems to be working OK. -- Wotthe7734 00:29, 13 October 2007 (EDT)

Common Memes in the LOLCatBible

Here are some suggestions for names of God not yet specified:

  • The Lord == Top Cat
  • Jesus == JesusCat
  • The Holy Spirit == HoverCat

Thus, the Trinity is Ceiling Cat / Top Cat, JesusCat, and HoverCat. --

The trinity doesn't matter, the word and exact concept is never mentioned in the bible. Its more of a catholic thing like hail marys Bboyneko 14:09, 12 October 2007 (EDT)
In view of door cat subbing for ceiling cat, I wondered if Jesus == DoorCat? -- Flooof 13:53, 12 October 2007 (EDT)
Haha, I also kind'a like the idea, but I think that it's too obscure to really use. It has to retain some sort of connection to the actual story, or else it's just too difficult to understand, and actually loses some of the humor. Names are generally kept the same, and Jesus' name is actually used, whereas God is really an unnamed entity. anshkakashi 13:59, 12 October 2007 (EDT)
Hey, the inconsistency is part of the fun! (That includes inconsistent spelling, which I'm doing on purpose.) Besides, it won't take long for anyone who's even vaguely familiar with lolspeak to figure out what you're talking about. But I agree with anshkakashi, Doorcat doesn't really do it. I'd go with Jesuscat. I wouldn't have thought of Hovercat, but I like it! -- Wotthe7734 00:36, 13 October 2007 (EDT)
I LOVE HoverCat -- Djkatscan 09:00, 13 October 2007 (EDT)
Ditto! Glintir 13:15, 18 October 2007 (CDT)
Love it too! NoodleHat 12:23, 28 October 2007 (EDT)
Trinity doesn't matter? A catholic thing? Ooh, do we have the beginnings of a theological argument on lolcatbible? :P NoodleHat 12:23, 28 October 2007 (EDT)
Whatever your theological take on it, the three titles do appear together in the Bible, so we should be careful to make sure that the full set of names are consistent where they appear together. I'm thinking in particular of Mattthew 28:19 and 2 Corinthians 13:13, though I'm sure there are a couple more. Pseudonym 20:52, 18 November 2007 (EST)


What about Cheesus, for Jesus? 'Cause it SOUNDS like lolspeak, and it would mean "blesses us", if you equate "Cheese" with Cheezburgerz

I'm honestly a bit iffy on changing the names of people, though Jesus and Cheesus seem to fit nicely... and it DOES bring along the idea of "lolspeak" + "cheezburger for salvashun" type thing. I'll need to see more reaction to this idea before I send my bot master to make such a change.--Zotnix 20:14, 9 November 2007 (EST)

Israel

I was wondering about a standard translation for 'Israel' as it comes up a lot. I used "all kittehs". What does anyone think? NoodleHat 12:18, 28 October 2007 (EDT)

Me Thoughts

Thoughts on terms/etc.

The "Ceiling Cat" really doesn't do it for me. Nor does the "Wall Cat". Considering how famed cats are for running on roof tops. It just seems very lacking to me.

I'm not sure what I'd go for in way of God instead. Maybe "MakeCat" or "SunCat" or "TopCat", "CatIAM", "The Burning Cat"..


Here are some ideas I have for other words. Remember, some things, people, beings in the Bible have multiple ways to refer to them. We shouldn't be opposed to having the same, be it: God, Lord, YHVH. Or Jesus, Emmanuel, Christ/Messiah, etc.

I think it might be cool to do: AEIE for YHVH. (I derivced the AEIE by taking just the vowels from CAT & FELINE to create a tetragram.)

WingCat = Angel (archangel = uberWingCat) Furless WingCat = Demon

I'll second the motion of HitlerCat = Satan

Sin, not quite getting the "invisible error". If you're trying to make some anti-Judeo/Christian inference with that translation. Then don't, we'll get a better product if it's just neutral and sticks to the translation and humor.

One thought regarding sin. It's often referred to as "missing the mark", this makes me think that "Miss'da'Box" might be a good equivalent for sin.

LitterBox = Gehenna/Hades

Kingdom = Cheezburger & Fries (ties into the blessing thing)

Spirit/Ghost/etc = 10th Life

Sword = Claw

Proper Names: In most cases I think we should either avoid changing the names. Perhaps just spell proper names in consonant caps (ie: MoSeS, DaViD, eLiJaH).

Or try to pick a famous act: Moses = BasketCat Adam = FirstCat Mordecai = Mordecat (makes sense, where ever we can insert cat into a name) Johosophat - Johosocat


The Holy Spirit = HoverCat (i'll second this one)

Jesus = The Cat / DoorCat / CrossCat / RighteousCat

Eternal Life = 9,000 Lives (not quite eternal, but gets the point across)

I don't think "all the kitties" works. Because it won't fit into the context. Israel never included all the kitties. In fact, that is almost the exact opposite of Israel. Israel was a "Peculiar People" or a "Chosen People". So I think we go with parralells of those two terms.

"Peculiar Cats"

"Chosen Cats" or "Choice Cats"


The reason "Trinity" doesn't matter? Is that you won't EVER find that word in the Bible. It's a term for a concept not an actual thing. It's not saying you might not have the concept - rather, there is no need to for a synonym LOLCAT word unless you start writing the LOLCAT BIBLE COMMENTARY. Cause the word just doesn't appear anywhere in the texts. That's all...

Big Arse Cat = Goliath

Prostitute/Adulteress = SheCat in Heat

Prophet = SeerCat

BTW, a good resource for a variety of translations of the Bible (for slight nuance differences) is: www.blueletterbible.org 10 or so translations plus the original Hebrew and Greek so you can guage what a word means independently.

I do like a lot of your ideas. Unfortunately "Ceiling Cat" is solidified in the eyes of the public as our version of God, and is damn well solidified. can't change that, unfortunately.
Inserting "cat" in a name where appropriate is an awesome idea, and will fit wonderfully. It won't be TOO different to confuse people, so that works.
HitlerCat, I'm afraid, I'll have to be totally against. I'd rather not bring in "Hitler" anywhere, as that just brings up a lot of external negative connotation. Odd, because that is what Satan does, but I do think just using that name would be a bit out of place. "Catan" may work, though doesn't sound very humorous. At present he just seems to be "Saitan". Will need more discussion on that.
The alternative names for whores/etc, awesome. like it a lot. Feel free to edit around. If it sticks then I can make guidelines to fit the changes.
Thanks for all the input! --Zotnix 20:23, 9 November 2007 (EST)

Devils

Since we brought up "Satan", it's probably worth briefly discussing the relevant source words, so we can work out a consisten way of translating them.

  • Satan (OT/NT) - Literally, "accuser" or "adversary", or even "the prosecutor". Note that in the OT, there doesn't appear to be a literal "devil" in the NT sense; Satan works for the Ceiling Cat as the prosecutor, and the Ceiling Cat is the judge.
  • Diabolos (NT) - Literally, "slanderer", usually translated "devil". See Revelation 12:9 in particular.
  • Daimonos (NT) - Literally, "evil spirit", usually translated "demon". Interestingly, in the NT, this always appears to refer to some kind of physical or mental affliction.

And then, there are a bunch of titles used as proper names:

  • Azazel (Leviticus 16)
  • Belial (OT/NT) - In the NT, it appears in 2 Corinthians 6:15. In the OT, it's usually in the phrase "sons of Belial" in the OT, referring to rebellious persons.
  • Heliel ben-shachar/Heosphoros/Lucifer (Isaiah 14:12-14 only) - Literally, "bright one, son of the dawn", sometimes translated "day star". This may or may not refer to Satan, depending on whom you ask.
  • Beelzebub/Baalzebub (OT/NT) - Literally, "lord of the flies". Originally a Philistine god, but used in the NT as a synonym for Satan.

There are also a bunch of other titles, like "the wicked one", "the dragon", "prince of this world" etc, which we can probably translate literally (or to something familiar to cats).

I think it's best to stick with "Saitin" to refer to Satan in the OT usage, and probably NT as well.

"Azazel", "Belial" and "Beelzebub" can probably be left untranslated, though I'm sure someone can come up with a creative misspelling for "Beelzebub".

"Day star"/"Lucifer" is going to be a tricky one. Even English Bible translators have a lot of difficulty with that one.

That leaves "diabolos" and "daimonos". Suggestions?

-- Pseudonym 07:07, 18 November 2007 (EST)

Hell

I've noticed a lack of consistency on how to translate the word "hell". Confusing things is that English bibles (e.g. the KJV) have the habit of translating a bunch of different words to the one word "hell". I think we should get this consistent because it affects the cosmonogy of lolcat culture. We know that gud kittehs goes 2 teh Ceiling. Where do teh bad kittehs go?

The words we're interested in are:

  • Gehenna (OT and NT) - This is literally the Hinnom gulch, which in Biblical times was a perpetually burning rubbish dump. Eventually it was used metaphorically to refer to the entrance to the underworld. Jesus also used this term, probably also metaphorically (i.e. the idea of being thrown on the rubbish heap, and getting destroyed in the fire).
  • Sheol (OT)/Hades (NT) - The world of the dead.
  • Tartarus (2 Peter 2:4 only) - One step lower than Hades, in Greek mythology.

In Matthew 5, I changed the instances of "Gehenna" to "trashcan", because in that case, Jesus seems to be referring directly to the Hinnom valley, as well as alluding to the metaphorical OT Gehenna.

I think this is a good term to use in general. So teh bad kittehs goes in teh trashcan, k?

I'm not sure about the other two terms. Does anyone have any suggestions?

-- Pseudonym 06:35, 18 November 2007 (EST)

Wouldn't "basement" work for Sheol-as-hell? I mean, if good kittehs go to the ceiling, then it would make sense, right?
Anne Onimus 02:53, 21 November 2007 (EST)
I like that. Pseudonym 06:36, 21 November 2007 (EST)
I suggested it because it seems kind of triply appropriate; traditional placement of heaven and hell, the fact that basements tend to be cold, damp, nasty places that may or may not contain furnaces, and also the horror movie cliche of basements being REALLY bad places to go into.
Someone else can make the BasementCat macro, though ^_-
Anne Onimus 17:02, 21 November 2007 (EST)
I'm not sure myself. I used "Littrbocks" for Hell in Acts... as it was a stinky "bad place"... but if a convention comes up, I'd use it. Hell is one of those strange places. I'm trying not to force memes in the lolcat bible... wondering if something will just crop up naturally... like Ceiling Cat for God did. --Zotnix 17:26, 21 November 2007 (EST)

Please leave out propaganda

I had a concern about Hosea 1 verse 7 where the translator made a comment that was discriminatory against homosexuals, and the issue is not found in any of the English translations that I checked, and the OT scholar at my school said that the Hebrew also says nothing of the source. I felt that the translation into LOLcat scewed the wording to be anti-gay. I think that the translators ought to avoid adding personal or political agendas to their translations. Let's not make the same mistakes that the original King James translations did.02:23, 19 November 2007 (EST) Towefincat

Perhaps a better way of putting this is: Don't put in any prejudices that weren't there to begin with. This sounds like an excellent official guideline. Want to write it up for the main article? Pseudonym 06:38, 19 November 2007 (EST)
Yes, sounds good.
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